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Not a CISSP

  

One of my favorite pieces of swag from RSA was this “Not a CISSP” button that was pinned onto me by none other than Sinan Eren as I was chatting with Justine Aitel at the Immunity booth. Actually, there should have been a prize awarded just for finding the Immunity booth — they were subletting another vendor’s space for a few hours at a time, so one minute they’d be there and the next they were gone.

Not a CISSP

I digress. What inevitably happened once I started walking around with this button proudly displayed was that I would get one of two reactions. The first group — mostly current and former co-workers and acquaintances — understood the humor and got a good chuckle out of it. The second group would ponder for a bit and then ask, with some confusion, why I’d intentionally point out the fact that I’m not a CISSP. I’d give a brief answer and get back to talking about Veracode (we booth babes have responsibilities, you know).

So, why indeed? The long answer is that like many security certifications, it’s an ineffective measure of a security professional’s practical abilities. Employers and customers often assume the guy with the five magic letters on his resume is technically superior to the guy without. In my experience, it’s exactly the opposite, particularly in situations where you have to sit down at a keyboard and actually DO something as opposed to talking about it. Certainly, I’ve encountered some very notable exceptions to this observation, but we’re playing by the 80/20 rule here.

There’s a good reason for this. The trend in information security is toward specialization. Security has become such a broad umbrella of varying disciplines that it’s quite difficult to be a generalist. A security career is a balance between breadth and depth, and these days, the skilled pen tester, reverse engineer, or vulnerability researcher is more marketable than the guy who knows a little bit about dozens of different disciplines but can’t apply that knowledge in a practical situation. The CISSP subject matter illustrates this perfectly — you have cryptographic algorithms, site location principles, network security, and civil law on the same exam. I won’t even get into the complaints I’ve heard about the poorly-worded, overly simplistic exam questions or the ones that simply test one’s ability to memorize obscure facts.

I’m not claiming that there’s no value to holding the CISSP certification. It can’t hurt to have some exposure to business continuity planning, for example. The problem, as I stated in the beginning, is that the CISSP title is often interpreted as an indicator of practical abilities rather than a book-level understanding of security basics. These misaligned expectations can ultimately lead to bad hiring or staffing decisions.

Career advice, take it or leave it: If an employer or prospective employer demands that you get your CISSP in order to be hired or to progress in your career, run fast in the opposite direction and find a place where you will be valued for your cumulative experience rather than a piece of paper. Learn by doing, don’t “learn the test,” so to speak.

And that, in a nutshell, is why I love my “Not a CISSP” button.

By the way, here was my other favorite from RSA, thanks to WhiteHat. This one and “Samy is my hero” were the best out of a pretty clever selection… even though they forgot the semicolon after the single quote. <grin>

DROP Table SalesPitch

17 Comments »

I’ve met many, many security professionals that are above and beyond the majority of the CISSP’s in the field. Like other certifications, it has become devalued and this belief is shared by not only coworkers, but also managers in my organization as well. It may help you get a foot in the door some places, but any company that requires it gets negative bonus points in my book.

I will not be renewing my cert when it expires…

Comment by TK — April 18, 2008 @ 11:57 am

I am jealous of your button. That rules.

Comment by Joel Elser — April 18, 2008 @ 12:44 pm

Helps if I spell my name right.

Comment by Joel Esler — April 18, 2008 @ 12:44 pm

Its a good thing you aren’t still on the NSA Red Team or because of 8570 you wouldn’t be able to wear your “Not a CISSP” button.

Your Career Advice may work for people of your caliber and experience but for everyone else starting out its difficult to get that experience when so many people or contracts require certifications to get the job…to get the experience.

Comment by CG — April 18, 2008 @ 1:10 pm

@CG: Seriously? Does DoD 8570 really require Red Team (and other DoD) personnel to have CISSPs? That’s just sad if it’s true… That’s a perfect example of a case where the required skillset is completely misaligned from what the certification provides.

Comment by Chris Eng — April 18, 2008 @ 2:04 pm

Sounds like someone failed the test. And if you cannot even spell your own name, then maybe you should consider letting your cert run out and take some spelling lessons…. but it is a cool button.

DJ
CISSP

Comment by DJ — April 18, 2008 @ 2:33 pm

This has always and will continue to be a fun debate. What I always find overwhelmingly hysterical is how critical the ‘experienced people’ are of the ‘certified people’. Do you ever see ‘certified people’ walking around bashing on those who are not certified? No… not really… it is normally the opposite where people claim certification adds no value and those that do get certified are in some way just downright clueless individuals and that certification is simply a waste of time.

What certification offers, as Joel pointed out, is a way for some of us to land jobs. Some of us did not grow up tinkering with electronics, but rather waited until a bit later in life to fall in love with technology. That said, both have their benefits. Experience is a good thing, but it certainly does not mean you have a clue about the business. Certification is a good thing, but is also does not mean that you have a clue. Is it possible then to be certified and experienced? Probably…

At the end of the day, what matters most is being able to have an impact within your company. If that means having a certification, then great. But it also might mean experience means more in that particular environment. Saying one is superior to the other, in my opinion, lacks merit. Environments are all different and what makes a difference in my shop might not mean squat in the building next door.

Love the posts… keep ‘em coming…

Comment by Thomas — April 18, 2008 @ 2:36 pm

I guess you won’t be doing Information Assurance for the government either……

Comment by luke — April 18, 2008 @ 3:24 pm

yes it is required…and rumor is that CISA will now be required to since they (Red/Blue Teams) are “auditors”

yes Chris, it is sad.

Comment by CG — April 18, 2008 @ 3:52 pm

i think everyone agrees that due to just the science of marketing that cert’s will help you get jobs. for cissp the market for it is somewhat justified. the major distinction i see from other cert’s is cissp has some emphases on policy and other non-nut-and-bolt technical details that are important for security management. and many people in corporate security these days has to review tons of specs and evaluate products or services more than they do configuring junk. i think the cissp fits that market well. it doesn’t show energy or understanding of the finer technical details and it doesn’t really give you much in terms of hands on. btw, this is just what I’ve come to understand from watching friends get this cert. but whatever, did I just write two paragraphs about cissp?????

Comment by cyphunk — April 26, 2008 @ 10:16 pm

The CISSP cert is a joke and half…It’s also a very well played scam by Shon Harris, Michael Greig and the rest of the douchers who are riding the idiot cert wave.

I’m thinking of starting my own random certification, convincing my company and a few key government officials that it’s really necessary, then I too will make millions off an unneeded, unaccredited, waste of time and superfluous exam.

By the way, i took the test yesterday, and it is retarded. Every question had a grammatical or punctuation error which served to make the question virtually invalid.

Comment by Matt — August 25, 2008 @ 11:13 am

I still remember going for CISSP cert in 2002. Although I was sceptical before the test, I was laughing out loud after the test. I came to do the test with something like 10 years of experience in security world. Half of the questions are totally retarded and hard to understand for non-native English speakers (like me). Quarter of the questions had retarded answers, which conflict with real-life experiences. I mean, I’ve been doing pentests for 6-7 years, and here I get a question like - “Who should be informed of penetration test?” - well, my experience to that point showed me that management informs whoever they want. They don’t make decisions based on what CISSP question writers think.

I just saw a program at my mate’s place (some Testout CISSP crap), and I was stunned after seeing so many test questions which have NO relation whatsoever to real-life experiences. I see that they’ve introduced some brain-damaged concepts like “zero-knowledge” pentesting teams, hahaha. Gotta keep up with buzzwords, I guess.

After I got the CISSP “cert” 6 years ago, I refused to pay the “membership” and told them to **** themselves.

Nice scam attempt, though.

Comment by Senti — September 2, 2008 @ 12:20 pm

I took the CISSP and passed a few months ago. I agree that the CISSP is a complete joke.

My “preparation” consisted of spending a few hours the night before taking the online free versions of the test on the Internet. I was actually somewhat surprised as to how easy the real test was compared to the online freebies.

I expected the questions to be nonsensical and not applicable to the real world, which they were. Most of the questions I answered not based upon real world application but based upon what I felt ISC(2) wanted.

The test is scheduled for 6 hours. I was done after 2 hours and that was at a leisurely pace, including take a break for a snack I brought and going over the test answers again.

Luckily my employer graciously paid for this piece of crap paper which I recycled as soon as I received it in the mail.

Comment by Steve — September 25, 2008 @ 4:29 pm

[...] I accept that. I’m not ranting against the idea of certifications, though admittedly I’m not a fan of them either. I am disappointed that (ISC)2, an organization with tremendous influence, could have created [...]

Pingback by Zero in a bit » (ISC)2’s Newest Cash Cow: The CSSLP Certification — September 29, 2008 @ 10:24 am

Guys, I have worked in IT for 13 years… I’ve done IA work for the government and I helped develop a commercial B2+ secure operating system used by the military… So, I knew a few things about security before sitting for the CISSP. That being said, the potential body of knowledge is so broad that the test questions can be just about anything you can imagine… BC/DR, Physical Security, Crypto, etc. If you don’t have a broad career experience, it is very likely that you won’t know much about at least one or two of these areas. So, in that respect, this is a difficult exam for a lot of people. Does it mean that I now know more about access control than I did before? No. Do I know more about legal and regulatory requirements? Sure… And that is not a bad thing. Stop whining… Prepare and take the exam– you might end up being a more well-rounded professional. (And if you want to take technical cert exams, go get yourself a CCIE… see if that one is easy… or cheap)

Comment by Ron — November 16, 2008 @ 11:52 pm

Put a CISSP in a keyboard and ask him just to find which is the domain controller in a network and probably will cry…

Comment by LX — December 11, 2008 @ 6:33 am

The first bad thing about CISSP is that it is considered valuable and the second one that those who have it, think theirselves as supernatural creatures in the World of Security. Talking seriously though it is just a certification for managers without technical background. So when the technical guy will say i know TCP/IP they can answer i know BIA. The strange thing is how those people can be consultans and know how to secure a network infrastructure. Finally maybe it is just papers and reports that managers hold and all the actual work is being held from the underlying layer where technicians, admins, etc can cooperate.

Dont confuse CISSP with technical security!

Comment by LX — December 11, 2008 @ 9:58 am

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